Friday, August 12, 2011

Heresies in the 1917 Codex?


Share/Bookmark


Here is an extremist site that exemplifies the absurdities to which you will logically arrive if you accept a fundamentalist understanding of EENS---and by that I mean failing to accept the nuances of baptism of desire/blood, invincible ignorance, etc.

Posted by Don Paco at August 12, 2011
Labels:

10 comments:

Anonymous said...

Perhaps Dr. you could one day write a Thomistic refutation of sites such as this one. One website that I know of of even more extreme than this one is the Willing Catholic Martyr blogspot and its associated websites. They hold Bl. Pius IX to have been the last valid pope and since Pope Leo XIII dedicated himself to the revitalization of Thomistic thought I think it would be a worthy endeavor to refute their extremist errors.

Yours in Christ,
Ryan C.

2:43 PM
Mike said...

Blog authors - if you keep the heresies of "baptism of desire", "baptism of blood", "Heaven by ignorance", etc. -- on your blog you will continue on your current path of being headed for Hell.

I compiled the Immaculata-one.com cited on your heretical blog in the comment above at the "site" link.

The Catholic Water Baptism Dogma (19 of the them) which completely rules out "b.o.d" and "b.o.b" are on Section 7.2.

The Catholic Dogma that ignorance of the Dogma sends you into Hell is listed on Section 5.1.

If some day you want to be a Christian there is a Formal Abjuration on Section 19.1.

The Dogma on Automatic Excommunication which is operative against your soul at this point is listed on Section 13.2 of the site.

Mike

7:01 PM
Don Paco said...

I'm sorry, Mike, but if those doctrines are "heresies" then all the theologians and even doctors and Fathers of the Church (and even Popes in their catechisms et alia) are heretics, and not saints, and the Church erred in canonizing them.

What you propose is just not worth being taken seriously.

(By the way, "heaven by ignorance" is your invention; that is not contained in any traditional Catholic source.)

8:43 PM
Mike said...

Paco

Your headed for Hell.

Name ONE and ONLY ONE citation that teaches your Satanic "baptism of desire" heresy IN A DOGMATIC VENUE ... the Popes in union with the bishops of the world.

Name ONE.

9:22 PM
Mike said...

Anonymous -

Instead of the purposeless name calling like "extreme" ... perhaps you can take a look through Sections 20, 20.1, and 20.2 of Immaculata-one.com ... where I list the amazing heresies of the anti-Popes that set up the Vatican-2 "council" of apostasy ... and describe to us all why you think they are not heresies.

Also heretic Dave Landry of "Willing Catholic Martyr" blogspot is headed for Hell with his sidekick Franco Pagnanelli. I list his heresies in Appendix C of Immaculata-one.com.

Mike

9:39 PM
Don Paco said...

Mike,

1) You are extreme. I am not name-calling. It is a well-deserved adjective. Your claiming that the popes from Leo XIII on are anti-popes should give you a clue. So should your confidence in telling me that I am going to hell.

2) Baptism of desire is infallibly taught by the Council of Trent. I know you will deny this, but this is how the approved theologians have interpreted that text for centuries, and their consensus is authoritative in theology.

3) You begin with the wrong premise. A doctrine need not be taught infallibly by the Magisterium for it to be true. In fact, the whole of Divine Revelation was true before the Magisterium spoke about it. There are other criteria for us to know that a doctrine is theologically true: the consensus of fathers, of theologians, and of the faithful are authoritative in theology.

4) It seems you have mistaken me for a liberal. I assure you I am not. I will be the first one vehemently to denounce the liberal interpretation of EENS, according to which anyone outside the Church can be saved "through Christ," because "we trust God's mercy." Yet I strive to understand this dogma in accordance with the approved theologians of the Church, in particular the pre-conciliar theologians, ALL of whom understand it differently from the way you do. Cf.

http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/BaptDes-Proofed.pdf

9:52 PM
Anonymous said...

Dr. I think you understood my post and Michael's position. Now Michael please correct me if I am wrong but your position is that Pius X was the last valid pope while it is the position of David Landry of WCM and of his friends that Pius IX was the last valid pope. Would I be correct in this summary of your distinct beliefs recarding the last valid (in your opinion) claiment to the Papal throne?

10:03 PM
Don Paco said...

Let me correct something I said, Mike. Upon closer examination, I confused you with the even-more-radical group that Ryan C. mentioned.

(Amazing that no matter how far right you go, there seem to be people to your right.

Anyway, if I understand you correctly, you seem to think Pope Leo was pope, and so was Pius X (although he's not a saint). It's at Benedict XV where the list of anti-popes begin.

Good luck with that.

10:04 PM
Mike Bizzaro said...

Paco -

C'mon, you know that you're not going to fool people that the Council of Trent taught "baptism of desire".

One Section 7.3 I list five (5) sources of Dogma where the Council of Trent re-affirms the Water Baptism (only) Dogma ... and three (3) Sources of Dogma which specify that men cannot reach a state of justification (sanctified state) by "desire".

There is no such thing as "right" or "left" ... or "liberal" or "extremist". There is only Catholic or heretic ... the other labels are from the Vatican-2 anti-Christs.

Trent Session 6, Chapter 4 taught that you need BOTH the desire and water, I cover this fully in Section 7.3. The Church did this because the heretics of the time were in a number of justification heresies.

The Catholic Faith is the Sources of Dogma ... not the "consensus of the fathers" and "theologians" ... this is all a pack of lies from the excommunicated "vatican-2-ists". Any Church father or theologian who is against any Source of Dogma is excommunicated.

Tell us all which of the Sources of Dogma on Water Baptism only ... that I list on Section 7.2 ... that you disagree with and why ?

There is an Abjuration on Section 19.1 if you aver want to enter the Catholic Church.

Going off-line.

Mike

10:55 PM
Don Paco said...

Mike,

It does not matter what you or any other amateur theologian may think about Trent's teaching on baptism of desire: the reality is that the approved theologians of the Church unanimously interpret Trent as teaching that. Case closed. It's not open to discussion.

You can corroborate this by looking at any of the traditional manuals of theology, such as the BAC manual, Tanquerey, etc. We have lots of them at IAT, if you're interested.

11:03 PM

Post a Comment

Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)